Road to France Euro 2016 : Albania

[Simboli i Diellit]

The Armenian banner "Never forget 1915" was present in all other matches just like the TKZ banners so don't get it like an offence toward us. That was a political banner and thus should've been removed by UEFA but knowing the sensibility of the case plus the great support they're getting by western countries in recognizing their genocide the UEFA ufficials didn't find it harming.

The guy who brought the flag must be a Turk , a real albanian won't hold any other flag appart the red and black. Minotti is right that there are many Turkish asslickers through the Albanians and that doesn't happen only in Kosove or Illirida but also in Albania. We were playing in Elbasan where the biggest emigrant comunity of Turks lives and works (Kürüm Holding). In this contest and with the precedents of the Kosova is Serbia banner during their match vs Serbia i find the incident a minor one . Their fans were free to travel in Albania , had pictures with albanian fans in Tirana , drank and eat albanian food with the best ospitality a travelling fan can get anywhere in Europe. But the Armenians are like snakes, and this is not because of their religion , it's part of their character like Ismail Qemali always said. Them being Christian has nothing to do with being allies of Serbs because the Albanians became christians much earlier than them or ROME itself (Rome invaded the Balkans 500 years before they recognized the Christian religion as a state religion), same can be said about the first albanian muslims because at the time when the dad of Skenderbeg fought against Turks there were many nobleman (mosly in south and eastern albania ) who allied with them naturally because religion in middleages was seen by nobleman as a way to controll the people and extend their power .

On contrast of the Dr. Hakif Bajrami you have the Hoxhe Irfan Salihu from Prizren who says that in Kosove before 1455 there were 1% Albanians and that after they were brought there by Turks:

http://www.balkanweb.com/site/hoxha-nga ... li-turqia/
http://www.gazetatema.net/web/2014/09/2 ... e-kosoves/

Btw we know that speaking about religion will bring us nowhere . In Albania there are wannabe Turks, wannabe Italians , wannabe Greeks just like there are wannabe Swiss , wannabe German and wannabe Turks in Kosove .Think that there are more "i'm albanian" abroad than in the albanian lands (figuratively) .

[Plako]

See but I didn't mean to advocate for Christianity. And you can follow that line of logic to say that any religion we have is from our oppressors and that we should just worship fire and rocks like the "originals" did. Personally I would love to have a balanced Albania like I said earlier. Something like 33% Muslim, 33% Christian and 33% non-religious would be the most beautiful thing in the world for me to be honest. It's just that the fact that > 50% of our population claiming Muslim feels as if the Turks still have us bent over on our knees. That's all I meant by it. For all intents and purposes I have many Muslim family members and I have many Catholic family members so I'm really not advocating for either religion. At the end of the day, feja e shqipris eshte shqiptaria. Nuk ka rrendsi cfare fej besosh, po vec se je shqiptar.

speaking from personal experience what you say no matter how reasonable it is will fall on deaf ears on this forum when it comes to religion.

Because you yourself are speaking through the prism of religion while hiding behind the veil of "oh I'm not advocating for any religion". Take a look at any poster who speaks ill against Islam and I can guarantee you he is Christian. I am not religious myself and used to be vehemently anti-Islam having grown up under communism but I don't go on these Western propaganda driven tirades some of you love to do here. Yeah Islam was imposed on us whereas Chrsitianity we embraced with open arms because it's so awesome. Gimme a fucking break.


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[Pjetër]

See but I didn't mean to advocate for Christianity. And you can follow that line of logic to say that any religion we have is from our oppressors and that we should just worship fire and rocks like the "originals" did. Personally I would love to have a balanced Albania like I said earlier. Something like 33% Muslim, 33% Christian and 33% non-religious would be the most beautiful thing in the world for me to be honest. It's just that the fact that > 50% of our population claiming Muslim feels as if the Turks still have us bent over on our knees. That's all I meant by it. For all intents and purposes I have many Muslim family members and I have many Catholic family members so I'm really not advocating for either religion. At the end of the day, feja e shqipris eshte shqiptaria. Nuk ka rrendsi cfare fej besosh, po vec se je shqiptar.

speaking from personal experience what you say no matter how reasonable it is will fall on deaf ears on this forum when it comes to religion.

Because you yourself are speaking through the prism of religion while hiding behind the veil of "oh I'm not advocating for any religion". Take a look at any poster who speaks ill against Islam and I can guarantee you he is Christian. I am not religious myself and used to be vehemently anti-Islam having grown up under communism but I don't go on these Western propaganda driven tirades some of you love to do here. Yeah Islam was imposed on us whereas Chrsitianity we embraced with open arms because it's so awesome. Gimme a fucking break.


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just in case damien needed an example.

[NYVirus]

This has really become a bit of a shitshow and I know my role in it too... I'll stay mostly clear of the religious talk, although I will note that I personally resent this idea that there is an Orthodox Christian conspiracy that has the goal of dismantling Albania (and this mostly comes in the form of offensive remarks made towards the Albanian Orthodox church). I'll leave it at at that on religion.

As for the booing of the national anthem, you might be right that there was no booing... but there was lots of whistling. Whistling in Albanian culture is just the same as booing is in Western countries. I'm pretty sure I was not the only one that heard the whistling. That needs to stop.

Finally, the "they did it first" argument is a race to the bottom. Let's show everyone that we are better educated, more kind and more reasonable than they are. If someone takes that as a weakness, let them wallow in their own ignorance.

Later.

[Funky Ben]

Yeah Islam was imposed on us whereas Chrsitianity we embraced with open arms because it's so awesome. Gimme a fucking break.


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Difference is Christians stopped putting a sword to your throat hundreds of years ago for converting.

Muslims are doing this in the year 2015 and will still be doing this in 2100.

You cant blame the western world for looking at Islam in a negative way, and as an Albanian, we have been dealing with this shit for over 500 years now.



Ps the course of mass convertion for christianity and islam that you and some other people described is completely wrong, but i wont get into it since its too long a subject to discuss on a soccer forum, just remember that the Roman government werent christians until pretty late, in fact they killed their own people for being christians because they saw it as a cult and a threat to the empire, so the claim that the same government came and converted illyrians forcefully is absurd. It was a slow process that took hundreds of years and many reasons.

[Albanian Damien]

speaking from personal experience what you say no matter how reasonable it is will fall on deaf ears on this forum when it comes to religion.

Because you yourself are speaking through the prism of religion while hiding behind the veil of "oh I'm not advocating for any religion". Take a look at any poster who speaks ill against Islam and I can guarantee you he is Christian. I am not religious myself and used to be vehemently anti-Islam having grown up under communism but I don't go on these Western propaganda driven tirades some of you love to do here. Yeah Islam was imposed on us whereas Chrsitianity we embraced with open arms because it's so awesome. Gimme a fucking break.


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just in case damien needed an example.

Yes. I see now. Apparently people are really sure that I'm trying to convert them or something. That's not the case at all. I'm neither catholic nor Muslim. I've been to church one time in my whole life for my cousins baptism because I wanted to respect my tezes beliefs. At the same time my cousins and their mothers observe Ramadan and I respect their beliefs also. However, I personally don't even believe in the institutionalism of religion.

Now let's get right to the point. The fact that over 50% of our country is Muslims is a psychological wound that Turkey has left on us. If you don't see how subconsciously demeaning that is to use then I don't know what to tell you. It's bad enough our language has been contaminated with their words:

mashalla
ishalla
kismet
hajdut

Just some example of turkish words that are still in our language. So, how can you possibly say that that doesn't have a subconscious effect on your own belief systems growing up? Don't get me wrong we're not the only country this happened to. The Greeks took just as many turkish words as we did. So how come those motherfuckers aren't muslim like us? Because maybe they realized that although it's too late to change the language we can still have control of our own beliefs. We don't have to follow blindly the beliefs of our previous "masters".

I mean is that not the reason why so many Albanians are Muslim? An Albanian is Muslim because his parents were Muslim. His parent's were Muslims because their parents were Muslim and so on and so forth. This how Turkey continues to subconsciously control us. So what I mean to say is that as the Muslim population drops that means that more and more Albanians are thinking coherently for themselves. They are breaking from the chain of tradition which is very good thing. But at the same time I'm not advocating for Christianity to take over. I've said it once but I'll say it again. 33% Muslim, 33% Christian and 33% non-religious would be my dream so that Albanian can show the whole world how a civilized society is supposed to treat religion. I do not want ANY religion to dominate our country. None of them should be above 50%. Because if we start being 60% Christian we might end up acting like those fucking Greek and Serb faggot. I assure you I don't want that.

What I want is for Albanian to be free to choose ANY religion they want because of their own. But when > 50% is automatically going to pick Muslim then it feels like were just puppets for Turkey. If you think that's wrong then why the f*** are there Albanians going to fight for ISIS in Syria? Those poor Albanian Muslims have brainwashed by Turkey. Syrians are not our brother. Turks are not our brothers. Greeks are not our brothers. Serbs are not our brothers. Any religion that sides with any of those is the wrong religion. For me at least.

[Funky Ben]

The Greeks took just as many turkish words as we did. So how come those motherfuckers aren't muslim like us? Because maybe they realized that although it's too late to change the language we can still have control of our own beliefs.

Youre wrong here.

Most Albanians converted not to pay taxes, not to deal with the fucking Turks on a daily basis, basically like "here, ill convert to your stupid religion just stay out of my life"

Greeks didnt do shit, religion was so important to them that they paid taxes to the Turks by giving them their daughters . They changed their blood line to keep their religion, hence their shade of color today. A modern greek is just a christian turk, not much different than a syrian orthodox for example, other than language.

[Albanian Damien]

The Greeks took just as many turkish words as we did. So how come those motherfuckers aren't muslim like us? Because maybe they realized that although it's too late to change the language we can still have control of our own beliefs.

Youre wrong here.

Most Albanians converted not to pay taxes, not to deal with the fucking Turks on a daily basis, basically like "here, ill convert to your stupid religion just stay out of my life"

Greeks didnt do shit, religion was so important to them that they paid taxes to the Turks by giving them their daughters . They changed their blood line to keep their religion, hence their shade of color today. A modern greek is just a christian turk, not much different than a syrian orthodox for example, other than language.

But are we really that much different? Most of us have some Turkish blood(even if it's just a drop) as sad as it is. My own great grandmother was a Turk. It's inevitable after 500 years. We can't control it no more than light skin black people in America can control the fact they have the blood of slave masters in them. However, the one thing we can control is our ideologies. That's the only point I meant to make about the declining Muslim population. I really didn't think it would spark such a large debate

[Plako]

But are we really that much different? Most of us have some Turkish blood(even if it's just a drop) as sad as it is. My own great grandmother was a Turk. It's inevitable after 500 years. We can't control it no more than light skin black people in America can control the fact they have the blood of slave masters in them. However, the one thing we can control is our ideologies. That's the only point I meant to make about the declining Muslim population. I really didn't think it would spark such a large debate

Not most of us really, maybe the population in the cities like Shkoder, Gjirokaster, Elbasan may have been mixed but not the highlanders in the North and South for sure and not the countryside. Until 1990, 70% of Albanians lived in rural areas and Turks have not been know to have settled in those areas.

And don't worry about sparking a debate, this is an old and recurring topic here usually initiated by fundamentalist Catholics like Dragoi and Pjetër and our in-house fundamentalist atheist DigBick

Feel free to speak your mind and welcome to the boards. We need posters like you.


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[Zemi]

Get this Damien dude out of here. Just starting problems. You're Muslim or Christian who gives a fuk.


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